[{"content":" Note source Long Discourses 15, The Great Discourse on Causation.\nTranslated by Bhikkhu Sujato for SuttaCentral .\nSource: Bilara JSON .\nNote section Dependent Origination Note So I have heard.\nNote At one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Kurus, near the Kuru town named Kammāsadamma.\nNote Then Venerable Ānanda went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him,\nĀnanda It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing,\nin that this dependent origination is deep and appears deep, yet to me it seems as plain as can be.\nBuddha Don’t say that, Ānanda, don’t say that!\nThis dependent origination is deep and appears deep.\nIt is because of not understanding and not penetrating this teaching that this population has become tangled like string, knotted like a ball of thread, and matted like rushes and reeds, and it doesn’t escape the places of loss, the bad places, the underworld, transmigration.\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for old age and death?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for old age and death?’ you should answer, ‘Rebirth is a requirement for old age and death.’\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for rebirth?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for rebirth?’ you should answer, ‘Continued existence is a requirement for rebirth.’\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for continued existence?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for continued existence?’ you should answer, ‘Grasping is a requirement for continued existence.’\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for grasping?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for grasping?’ you should answer, ‘Craving is a requirement for grasping.’\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for craving?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for craving?’ you should answer, ‘Feeling is a requirement for craving.’\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for feeling?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for feeling?’ you should answer, ‘Contact is a requirement for feeling.’\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for contact?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for contact?’ you should answer, ‘Name and form are requirements for contact.’\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for name and form?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for name and form?’ you should answer, ‘Consciousness is a requirement for name and form.’\nBuddha When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for consciousness?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’\nBuddha If they say, ‘What is a requirement for consciousness?’ you should answer, ‘Name and form are requirements for consciousness.’\nSo: name and form are requirements for consciousness. Consciousness is a requirement for name and form. Name and form are requirements for contact. Contact is a requirement for feeling. Feeling is a requirement for craving. Craving is a requirement for grasping. Grasping is a requirement for continued existence. Continued existence is a requirement for rebirth. Rebirth is a requirement for old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress to come to be.\nThat is how this entire mass of suffering originates.\n‘Rebirth is a requirement for old age and death’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no rebirth for anyone anywhere.\nBuddha That is, there were no rebirth of sentient beings into their various realms—of gods, centaurs, spirits, creatures, humans, quadrupeds, birds, or reptiles, each into their own realm. When there’s no rebirth at all, with the cessation of rebirth, would old age and death still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of old age and death, namely rebirth.\n‘Continued existence is a requirement for rebirth’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no continued existence for anyone anywhere.\nBuddha That is, continued existence in the sensual realm, the realm of luminous form, or the formless realm. When there’s no continued existence at all, with the cessation of continued existence, would rebirth still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of rebirth, namely continued existence.\n‘Grasping is a requirement for continued existence’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no grasping for anyone anywhere.\nBuddha That is, grasping at sensual pleasures, views, precepts and observances, and theories of a self. When there’s no grasping at all, with the cessation of grasping, would continued existence still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of continued existence, namely grasping.\n‘Craving is a requirement for grasping’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no craving for anyone anywhere.\nBuddha That is, craving for sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touches, and ideas. When there’s no craving at all, with the cessation of craving, would grasping still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of grasping, namely craving.\n‘Feeling is a requirement for craving’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no feeling for anyone anywhere.\nBuddha That is, feeling born of contact through the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind. When there’s no feeling at all, with the cessation of feeling, would craving still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of craving, namely feeling.\nSo it is, Ānanda, that feeling gives rise to craving. Craving gives rise to searching. Searching gives rise to gaining material things. Gaining material things gives rise to evaluation. Evaluation gives rise to desire and lust. Desire and lust gives rise to attachment. Attachment gives rise to ownership. Ownership gives rise to stinginess. Stinginess gives rise to safeguarding.\nOwing to safeguarding, many bad, unskillful things come to be: taking up the rod and the sword, quarrels, arguments, and disputes, accusations, backbiting, and lies.\nBuddha ‘Owing to safeguarding, many bad, unskillful things come to be: taking up the rod and the sword, quarrels, arguments, and disputes, accusations, backbiting, and lies’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no safeguarding for anyone anywhere. When there’s no safeguarding at all, with the cessation of safeguarding, would those many bad, unskillful things still come to be?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason for the origination of those many bad, unskillful things, namely safeguarding.\n‘Stinginess gives rise to safeguarding’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no stinginess for anyone anywhere. When there’s no stinginess at all, with the cessation of stinginess, would safeguarding still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of safeguarding, namely stinginess.\n‘Ownership gives rise to stinginess’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no ownership for anyone anywhere. When there’s no ownership at all, with the cessation of ownership, would stinginess still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of stinginess, namely ownership.\n‘Attachment gives rise to ownership’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no attachment for anyone anywhere. When there’s no attachment at all, with the cessation of attachment, would ownership still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of ownership, namely attachment.\n‘Desire and lust gives rise to attachment’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no desire and lust for anyone anywhere. When there’s no desire and lust at all, with the cessation of desire and lust, would attachment still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of attachment, namely desire and lust.\nEvaluation gives rise to desire and lust’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no evaluation for anyone anywhere. When there’s no evaluation at all, with the cessation of evaluation, would desire and lust still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of desire and lust, namely evaluation.\n‘Gaining material things gives rise to evaluation’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no gaining of material things for anyone anywhere. When there’s no gaining of material things at all, with the cessation of gaining material things, would evaluation still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of evaluation, namely the gaining of material things.\n‘Searching gives rise to gaining material things’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no searching for anyone anywhere. When there’s no searching at all, with the cessation of searching, would the gaining of material things still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of gaining material things, namely searching.\n‘Craving gives rise to searching’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no craving for anyone anywhere.\nBuddha That is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for continued existence, and craving for nonexistence. When there’s no craving at all, with the cessation of craving, would searching still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of searching, namely craving.\nAnd so, Ānanda, these two things meet at the two aspects of feeling.\n‘Contact is a requirement for feeling’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were totally and utterly no contact for anyone anywhere.\nBuddha That is, contact through the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind. When there’s no contact at all, with the cessation of contact, would feeling still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of feeling, namely contact.\n‘Name and form are requirements for contact’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nBuddha Suppose there were none of the features, attributes, signs, and details by which the set of mental phenomena known as name is found. Would labeling contact still be found in the set of physical phenomena?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha Suppose there were none of the features, attributes, signs, and details by which the set of physical phenomena known as form is found. Would impingement contact still be found in the set of mental phenomena?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha Suppose there were none of the features, attributes, signs, and details by which the set of phenomena known as name and the set of phenomena known as form are found. Would either labeling contact or impingement contact still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha Suppose there were none of the features, attributes, signs, and details by which name and form are found. Would contact still be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of contact, namely name and form.\n‘Consciousness is a requirement for name and form’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nIf consciousness were not conceived in the mother’s womb, would name and form coagulate there?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha If consciousness, after being conceived in the mother’s womb, were to be miscarried, would name and form be born into this place?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha If the consciousness of a young boy or girl were to be cut off, would name and form achieve growth, increase, and maturity?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of name and form, namely consciousness.\n‘Name and form are requirements for consciousness’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.\nIf consciousness were not established in name and form, would the coming to be of the origin of suffering—of rebirth, old age, and death in the future—be found?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of consciousness, namely name and form.\nBuddha This is the extent to which one may be reborn, grow old, die, pass away, or reappear.\nThis is how far the scope of labeling, definition, and description extends; how far the sphere of wisdom extends; how far the cycle of rebirths spins so that this state of being may be found; namely, name and form together with consciousness.\nNote section Describing the Self Buddha How do those who describe the self describe it?\nBuddha They describe it as formed and limited:\n‘My self is formed and limited.’\nBuddha Or they describe it as formed and infinite:\n‘My self is formed and infinite.’\nBuddha Or they describe it as formless and limited:\n‘My self is formless and limited.’\nBuddha Or they describe it as formless and infinite:\n‘My self is formless and infinite.’\nBuddha Now, take those who describe the self as formed and limited.\nBuddha They describe the self in the present as formed and limited; or they describe it as sure to be in some other place formed and limited; or else they think: ‘Though it is not like that, I will ensure it is provided with what it needs to become like that.’\nThis being so, it’s appropriate to say that a theory of self as formed and limited underlies them.\nBuddha Now, take those who describe the self as formed and infinite …\nformless and limited …\nformless and infinite.\nBuddha They describe the self as formless and infinite in the present; or as sure to become formless and infinite in some other place; or else they think: ‘Though it is not like that, I will ensure it is provided with what it needs to become like that.’\nThis being so, it’s appropriate to say that a theory of self as formless and infinite underlies them.\nThat’s how those who describe the self describe it.\nNote section Not Describing the Self Buddha How do those who don’t describe the self not describe it?\nBuddha They don’t describe it as formed and limited …\nformed and infinite …\nformless and limited …\nformless and infinite:\n‘My self is formless and infinite.’\nBuddha Now, take those who don’t describe the self as formed and limited …\nformed and infinite …\nformless and limited …\nformless and infinite.\nBuddha They don’t describe the self in the present as formless and infinite; or as sure to become in some other place formless and infinite; and they don’t think: ‘Though it is not like that, I will ensure it is provided with what it needs to become like that.’\nThis being so, it’s appropriate to say that a theory of self as formless and infinite doesn’t underlie them.\nThat’s how those who don’t describe the self don’t describe it.\nNote section Regarding a Self Buddha How do those who regard the self regard it?\nThey regard feeling as self:\n‘Feeling is my self.’\nBuddha Or they regard it like this: ‘Feeling is definitely not my self. My self does not experience feeling.’\nBuddha Or they regard it like this: ‘Feeling is definitely not my self. But it’s not that my self does not experience feeling. My self feels, for my self is liable to feel.’\nBuddha Now, as to those who say:\n‘Feeling is my self.’\nBuddha You should say this to them:\n‘Reverend, there are three feelings:\npleasant, painful, and neutral.\nWhich one of these do you regard as self?’\nĀnanda, at a time when you feel a pleasant feeling, you don’t feel a painful or neutral feeling;\nyou only feel a pleasant feeling.\nAt a time when you feel a painful feeling, you don’t feel a pleasant or neutral feeling;\nyou only feel a painful feeling.\nAt a time when you feel a neutral feeling, you don’t feel a pleasant or painful feeling;\nyou only feel a neutral feeling.\nBuddha Pleasant feelings, painful feelings, and neutral feelings are all impermanent, conditioned, dependently originated, liable to end, vanish, fade away, and cease.\nWhen feeling a pleasant feeling they think: ‘This is my self.’\nWhen their pleasant feeling ceases they think: ‘My self has expired.’\nWhen feeling a painful feeling they think: ‘This is my self.’\nWhen their painful feeling ceases they think: ‘My self has expired.’\nWhen feeling a neutral feeling they think: ‘This is my self.’\nWhen their neutral feeling ceases they think: ‘My self has expired.’\nSo those who say ‘feeling is my self’ regard as self that which is evidently impermanent, mixed with pleasure and pain, and liable to rise and fall.\nBuddha That’s why it’s not acceptable to regard feeling as self.\nBuddha Now, as to those who say:\n‘Feeling is definitely not my self. My self does not experience feeling.’ You should say this to them,\n‘But reverend, where there is nothing felt at all, would the thought “I am” occur there?’\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why it’s not acceptable to regard self as that which does not experience feeling.\nBuddha Now, as to those who say:\n‘Feeling is definitely not my self. But it’s not that my self does not experience feeling. My self feels, for my self is liable to feel.’\nBuddha You should say this to them,\n‘Suppose feelings were to totally and utterly cease without remainder.\nWhen there’s no feeling at all, with the cessation of feeling, would the thought “I am this” occur there?’\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha That’s why it’s not acceptable to regard self as that which is liable to feel.\nBuddha Not regarding anything in this way, they don’t grasp at anything in the world.\nNot grasping, they’re not anxious. Not being anxious, they personally become extinguished.\nThey understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.’\nBuddha It wouldn’t be appropriate to say that a mendicant whose mind is freed like this holds the following views:\n‘A realized one still exists after death’;\n‘A realized one no longer exists after death’;\n‘A realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’;\n‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death’.\nWhy is that?\nBuddha A mendicant is freed by directly knowing this: how far labeling and the scope of labeling extend; how far definition and the scope of definition extend; how far description and the scope of description extend; how far wisdom and the sphere of wisdom extend; how far the cycle of rebirths and its continuation extend. It wouldn’t be appropriate to say that a mendicant freed by directly knowing this holds the view: ‘There is no such thing as knowing and seeing.’\nNote section Planes of Consciousness Buddha Ānanda, there are seven planes of consciousness and two dimensions.\nBuddha What seven?\nBuddha There are sentient beings that are diverse in body and diverse in perception, such as human beings, some gods, and some beings in the underworld.\nBuddha This is the first plane of consciousness.\nBuddha There are sentient beings that are diverse in body and unified in perception, such as the gods reborn in the Divinity’s host through the first absorption.\nBuddha This is the second plane of consciousness.\nBuddha There are sentient beings that are unified in body and diverse in perception, such as the gods of streaming radiance.\nBuddha This is the third plane of consciousness.\nBuddha There are sentient beings that are unified in body and unified in perception, such as the gods of universal beauty.\nBuddha This is the fourth plane of consciousness.\nBuddha There are sentient beings that have gone totally beyond perceptions of form. With the disappearance of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, they have been reborn in the dimension of infinite space.\nBuddha This is the fifth plane of consciousness.\nBuddha There are sentient beings that have gone totally beyond the dimension of infinite space. Aware that ‘consciousness is infinite’, they have been reborn in the dimension of infinite consciousness.\nBuddha This is the sixth plane of consciousness.\nBuddha There are sentient beings that have gone totally beyond the dimension of infinite consciousness. Aware that ‘there is nothing at all’, they have been reborn in the dimension of nothingness.\nBuddha This is the seventh plane of consciousness.\nThen there is the dimension of non-percipient beings, and secondly, the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.\nBuddha Now, regarding these seven planes of consciousness and two dimensions,\nis it appropriate for someone who understands them—and their origin, disappearance, gratification, drawback, and escape—to take pleasure in them?\nĀnanda No, sir.\nBuddha When a mendicant, having truly understood the origin, disappearance, gratification, drawback, and escape regarding these seven planes of consciousness and these two dimensions, is freed by not grasping, they’re called a mendicant who is freed by wisdom.\nNote section The Eight Liberations Buddha Ānanda, there are these eight liberations.\nBuddha What eight?\nBuddha Having physical form, they see forms.\nBuddha This is the first liberation.\nBuddha Not perceiving form internally, they see forms externally.\nBuddha This is the second liberation.\nThey’re focused only on beauty.\nBuddha This is the third liberation.\nBuddha Going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, they enter and remain in the dimension of infinite space.\nBuddha This is the fourth liberation.\nBuddha Going totally beyond the dimension of infinite space, aware that ‘consciousness is infinite’, they enter and remain in the dimension of infinite consciousness.\nBuddha This is the fifth liberation.\nBuddha Going totally beyond the dimension of infinite consciousness, aware that ‘there is nothing at all’, they enter and remain in the dimension of nothingness.\nBuddha This is the sixth liberation.\nBuddha Going totally beyond the dimension of nothingness, they enter and remain in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.\nBuddha This is the seventh liberation.\nBuddha Going totally beyond the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, they enter and remain in the cessation of perception and feeling.\nBuddha This is the eighth liberation.\nThese are the eight liberations.\nBuddha When a mendicant enters into and withdraws from these eight liberations—in forward order, in reverse order, and in forward and reverse order—wherever they wish, whenever they wish, and for as long as they wish;\nand when they realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life, and live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements, they’re called a mendicant who is freed both ways.\nBuddha And, Ānanda, there is no other freedom both ways that is better or finer than this.\nNote That is what the Buddha said.\nNote Satisfied, Venerable Ānanda approved what the Buddha said.\n","permalink":"https://shunyatha.in/en/notes/dn15_dialogue/","summary":"\u003csection class=\"dlg\" role=\"list\"\u003e\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-center dlg-size-long dlg-type-note dlg-speaker-note\" id=\"msg-001\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eNote\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-meta\"\u003e\n        \u003cspan class=\"dlg-tags\"\u003e\n          \u003cspan class=\"dlg-tag\"\u003esource\u003c/span\u003e\n        \u003c/span\u003e\n      \u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eLong Discourses 15, \u003cstrong\u003eThe Great Discourse on Causation\u003c/strong\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTranslated by Bhikkhu Sujato for \u003ca href=\"https://suttacentral.net/dn15/en/sujato\"\n   rel=\"noopener\"\n   class=\"external-link\"\n   target=\"_blank\"\n\u003eSuttaCentral\u003c/a\u003e\n.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSource: \u003ca href=\"https://raw.githubusercontent.com/suttacentral/bilara-data/refs/heads/published/translation/en/sujato/sutta/dn/dn15_translation-en-sujato.json\"\n   rel=\"noopener\"\n   class=\"external-link\"\n   target=\"_blank\"\n\u003eBilara JSON\u003c/a\u003e\n.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-001\" aria-label=\"Permalink to Note message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-center dlg-size-short dlg-type-note dlg-speaker-note\" id=\"msg-002\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eNote\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-meta\"\u003e\n        \u003cspan class=\"dlg-tags\"\u003e\n          \u003cspan class=\"dlg-tag\"\u003esection\u003c/span\u003e\n        \u003c/span\u003e\n      \u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003col\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eDependent Origination\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ol\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-002\" aria-label=\"Permalink to Note message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-center dlg-size-short dlg-type-note dlg-speaker-note\" id=\"msg-003\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eNote\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eSo I have heard.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-003\" aria-label=\"Permalink to Note message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-center dlg-size-medium dlg-type-note dlg-speaker-note\" id=\"msg-004\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eNote\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAt one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Kurus, near the Kuru town named Kammāsadamma.\u003c/p\u003e","title":"The Great Discourse on Causation"},{"content":" Note source Long Discourses 22, The Longer Discourse on Mindfulness Meditation.\nTranslated by Bhikkhu Sujato for SuttaCentral .\nSource: Bilara JSON .\nNote So I have heard.\nAt one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Kurus, near the Kuru town named Kammāsadamma.\nThere the Buddha addressed the mendicants,\nBuddha Mendicants!\nMendicants Venerable sir,\nNote they replied.\nThe Buddha said this:\nBuddha Mendicants, the four kinds of mindfulness meditation are the path to convergence. They are in order to purify sentient beings, to get past sorrow and crying, to make an end of pain and sadness, to discover the system, and to realize extinguishment.\nWhat four?\nIt’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.\nThey meditate observing an aspect of feelings—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.\nThey meditate observing an aspect of the mind—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.\nBuddha They meditate observing an aspect of principles—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.\nNote section Observing the Body Note section 1.1. Mindfulness of Breathing\nBuddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of the body?\nIt’s when a mendicant—gone to a wilderness, or to the root of a tree, or to an empty hut—sits down cross-legged, sets their body straight, and brings mindfulness to the present.\nJust mindful, they breathe in. Mindful, they breathe out.\nBreathing in heavily they know: ‘I’m breathing in heavily.’ Breathing out heavily they know: ‘I’m breathing out heavily.’\nWhen breathing in lightly they know: ‘I’m breathing in lightly.’ Breathing out lightly they know: ‘I’m breathing out lightly.’\nThey practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe in experiencing the whole body.’ They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe out experiencing the whole body.’\nBuddha They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe in stilling the physical process.’ They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe out stilling the physical process.’\nIt’s like a deft carpenter or carpenter’s apprentice. When making a deep cut they know: ‘I’m making a deep cut,’ and when making a shallow cut they know: ‘I’m making a shallow cut.’\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the body internally, externally, and both internally and externally.\nWith respect to the body, they meditate observing the liability to originate, to vanish, and to originate and vanish.\nOr mindfulness is established that the body exists, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world.\nBuddha That’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body.\nNote section 1.2. The Postures\nBuddha Furthermore, when a mendicant is walking they know: ‘I am walking.’ When standing they know: ‘I am standing.’ When sitting they know: ‘I am sitting.’ And when lying down they know: ‘I am lying down.’\nWhatever posture their body is in, they know it.\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the body internally, externally, and both internally and externally.\nThey meditate observing , with respect to the body, the liability to originate, to vanish, and to originate and vanish.\nOr mindfulness is established that the body exists, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world.\nThat too is how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body.\nNote section 1.3. Situational Awareness\nBuddha Furthermore, a mendicant acts with situational awareness when going out and coming back; when looking ahead and aside; when bending and extending the limbs; when bearing the outer robe, bowl, and robes; when eating, drinking, chewing, and tasting; when urinating and defecating; when walking, standing, sitting, sleeping, waking, speaking, and keeping silent.\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the body internally …\nThat too is how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body.\nNote section 1.4. Focusing on the Repulsive\nBuddha Furthermore, a mendicant examines their own body, up from the soles of the feet and down from the tips of the hairs, wrapped in skin and full of many kinds of filth.\n‘In this body there is head hair, body hair, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, diaphragm, spleen, lungs, intestines, mesentery, undigested food, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, grease, saliva, snot, synovial fluid, urine.’\nBuddha It’s as if there were a bag with openings at both ends, filled with various kinds of grains, such as fine rice, wheat, mung beans, peas, sesame, and ordinary rice. And a person with clear eyes were to open it and examine the contents: ‘These grains are fine rice, these are wheat, these are mung beans, these are peas, these are sesame, and these are ordinary rice.’\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the body internally …\nThat too is how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body.\nNote section 1.5. Focusing on the Elements\nBuddha Furthermore, a mendicant examines their own body, whatever its placement or posture, according to the elements:\n‘In this body there is the earth element, the water element, the fire element, and the air element.’\nIt’s as if a deft butcher or butcher’s apprentice were to kill a cow and sit down at the crossroads with the meat cut into chops.\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the body internally …\nThat too is how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body.\nNote section 1.6. The Charnel Ground Contemplations\nBuddha Furthermore, suppose a mendicant were to see a corpse discarded in a charnel ground. And it had been dead for one, two, or three days, bloated, livid, and festering.\nThey’d compare it with their own body:\n‘This body is also of that same nature, that same kind, and cannot go beyond that.’\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the body internally …\nThat too is how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body.\nBuddha Furthermore, suppose they were to see a corpse discarded in a charnel ground being devoured by crows, hawks, vultures, herons, hounds, tigers, leopards, jackals, and many kinds of little creatures.\nThey’d compare it with their own body:\n‘This body is also of that same nature, that same kind, and cannot go beyond that.’\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the body internally …\nThat too is how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body.\nBuddha Furthermore, suppose they were to see a corpse discarded in a charnel ground, a skeleton with flesh and blood, held together by sinews …\nA skeleton without flesh but smeared with blood, and held together by sinews …\nA skeleton rid of flesh and blood, held together by sinews …\nBones rid of sinews, scattered in every direction. Here a hand-bone, there a foot-bone, here an ankle bone, there a shin-bone, here a thigh-bone, there a hip-bone, here a rib-bone, there a back-bone, here an arm-bone, there a neck-bone, here a jaw-bone, there a tooth, here the skull. …\nWhite bones, the color of shells …\nDecrepit bones, heaped in a pile …\nBones rotted and crumbled to powder.\nThey’d compare it with their own body:\nBuddha ‘This body is also of that same nature, that same kind, and cannot go beyond that.’\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the body internally, externally, and both internally and externally.\nWith respect to the body, they meditate observing the liability to originate, to vanish, and to originate and vanish.\nOr mindfulness is established that the body exists, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world.\nThat too is how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body.\nNote section Observing the Feelings Buddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of feelings?\nIt’s when a mendicant who feels a pleasant feeling knows: ‘I feel a pleasant feeling.’\nWhen they feel a painful feeling, they know: ‘I feel a painful feeling.’\nWhen they feel a neutral feeling, they know: ‘I feel a neutral feeling.’\nWhen they feel a pleasant feeling of the flesh, they know: ‘I feel a pleasant feeling of the flesh.’\nWhen they feel a pleasant feeling not of the flesh, they know: ‘I feel a pleasant feeling not of the flesh.’\nWhen they feel a painful feeling of the flesh, they know: ‘I feel a painful feeling of the flesh.’\nWhen they feel a painful feeling not of the flesh, they know: ‘I feel a painful feeling not of the flesh.’\nBuddha When they feel a neutral feeling of the flesh, they know: ‘I feel a neutral feeling of the flesh.’\nWhen they feel a neutral feeling not of the flesh, they know: ‘I feel a neutral feeling not of the flesh.’\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of feelings internally, externally, and both internally and externally.\nWith respect to feelings, they meditate observing the liability to originate, to vanish, and to originate and vanish.\nOr mindfulness is established that feelings exist, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world.\nThat’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of feelings.\nNote section Observing the Mind Buddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of the mind?\nIt’s when a mendicant understands mind with greed as ‘mind with greed,’\nand mind without greed as ‘mind without greed.’\nThey understand mind with hate as ‘mind with hate,’\nand mind without hate as ‘mind without hate.’\nThey understand mind with delusion as ‘mind with delusion,’\nand mind without delusion as ‘mind without delusion.’\nThey know constricted mind as ‘constricted mind,’\nand scattered mind as ‘scattered mind.’\nThey know expansive mind as ‘expansive mind,’\nand unexpansive mind as ‘unexpansive mind.’\nThey know mind that is not supreme as ‘mind that is not supreme,’\nand mind that is supreme as ‘mind that is supreme.’\nBuddha They know mind immersed in samādhi as ‘mind immersed in samādhi,’\nand mind not immersed in samādhi as ‘mind not immersed in samādhi.’\nThey know freed mind as ‘freed mind,’\nand unfreed mind as ‘unfreed mind.’\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of the mind internally, externally, and both internally and externally.\nWith respect to the mind, they meditate observing the liability to originate, to vanish, and to originate and vanish.\nOr mindfulness is established that the mind exists, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world.\nThat’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the mind.\nNote section Observing Principles Note section 4.1. The Hindrances\nBuddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of principles?\nIt’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the five hindrances.\nBuddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of principles with respect to the five hindrances?\nIt’s when a mendicant who has sensual desire in them understands: ‘I have sensual desire in me.’ When they don’t have sensual desire in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have sensual desire in me.’ They understand how sensual desire arises; how, when it’s already arisen, it’s given up; and how, once it’s given up, it doesn’t arise again in the future.\nBuddha When they have ill will in them, they understand: ‘I have ill will in me.’ When they don’t have ill will in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have ill will in me.’ They understand how ill will arises; how, when it’s already arisen, it’s given up; and how, once it’s given up, it doesn’t arise again in the future.\nWhen they have dullness and drowsiness in them, they understand: ‘I have dullness and drowsiness in me.’ When they don’t have dullness and drowsiness in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have dullness and drowsiness in me.’ They understand how dullness and drowsiness arise; how, when they’ve already arisen, they’re given up; and how, once they’re given up, they don’t arise again in the future.\nBuddha When they have restlessness and remorse in them, they understand: ‘I have restlessness and remorse in me.’ When they don’t have restlessness and remorse in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have restlessness and remorse in me.’ They understand how restlessness and remorse arise; how, when they’ve already arisen, they’re given up; and how, once they’re given up, they don’t arise again in the future.\nWhen they have doubt in them, they understand: ‘I have doubt in me.’ When they don’t have doubt in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have doubt in me.’ They understand how doubt arises; how, when it’s already arisen, it’s given up; and how, once it’s given up, it doesn’t arise again in the future.\nBuddha And so they meditate observing an aspect of principles internally, externally, and both internally and externally.\nThey meditate observing the principles as liable to originate, as liable to fall, and as liable to both originate and vanish.\nOr mindfulness is established that principles exist, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world.\nThat’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the five hindrances.\nNote section 4.2. The Aggregates\nBuddha Furthermore, a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the five grasping aggregates.\nBuddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of principles with respect to the five grasping aggregates?\nIt’s when a mendicant contemplates:\nSuch is form, such is the origin of form, such is the ending of form.\nSuch is feeling, such is the origin of feeling, such is the ending of feeling.\nSuch is perception, such is the origin of perception, such is the ending of perception.\nSuch are choices, such is the origin of choices, such is the ending of choices.\nSuch is consciousness, such is the origin of consciousness, such is the ending of consciousness.’\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of principles internally …\nThat’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the five grasping aggregates.\nNote section 4.3. The Sense Fields\nBuddha Furthermore, a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the six interior and exterior sense fields.\nBuddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of principles with respect to the six interior and exterior sense fields?\nIt’s when a mendicant understands the eye, sights, and the fetter that arises dependent on both of these. They understand how the fetter that has not arisen comes to arise; how the arisen fetter comes to be abandoned; and how the abandoned fetter comes to not rise again in the future.\nThey understand the ear, sounds, and the fetter …\nThey understand the nose, smells, and the fetter …\nThey understand the tongue, tastes, and the fetter …\nThey understand the body, touches, and the fetter …\nBuddha They understand the mind, ideas, and the fetter that arises dependent on both of these. They understand how the fetter that has not arisen comes to arise; how the arisen fetter comes to be abandoned; and how the abandoned fetter comes to not rise again in the future.\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of principles internally …\nThat’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the six interior and exterior sense fields.\nNote section 4.4. The Awakening Factors\nBuddha Furthermore, a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the seven awakening factors.\nBuddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of principles with respect to the seven awakening factors?\nIt’s when a mendicant who has the awakening factor of mindfulness in them understands: ‘I have the awakening factor of mindfulness in me.’ When they don’t have the awakening factor of mindfulness in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have the awakening factor of mindfulness in me.’ They understand how the awakening factor of mindfulness that has not arisen comes to arise; and how the awakening factor of mindfulness that has arisen becomes fulfilled by development.\nWhen they have the awakening factor of investigation of principles …\nenergy …\nrapture …\ntranquility …\nimmersion …\nBuddha equanimity in them, they understand: ‘I have the awakening factor of equanimity in me.’ When they don’t have the awakening factor of equanimity in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have the awakening factor of equanimity in me.’ They understand how the awakening factor of equanimity that has not arisen comes to arise; and how the awakening factor of equanimity that has arisen becomes fulfilled by development.\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of principles internally, externally, and both internally and externally.\nThey meditate observing, with respect to the principles, the liability to originate, to vanish, and to originate and vanish.\nBuddha Or mindfulness is established that principles exist, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world.\nThat’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the seven awakening factors.\nNote section 4.5. The Truths\nBuddha Furthermore, a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the four noble truths.\nBuddha And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of principles with respect to the four noble truths?\nIt’s when a mendicant truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering.’\nNote recitation The first recitation section is finished.\nNote section 4.5.1. The Truth of Suffering\nBuddha And what is the noble truth of suffering?\nRebirth is suffering; old age is suffering; death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress are suffering; being coupled with the disliked is suffering; separation from the liked is suffering; not getting what you wish for is suffering. In brief, the five grasping aggregates are suffering.\nBuddha And what is rebirth?\nThe rebirth, inception, conception, regeneration, manifestation of the sets of phenomena, and acquisition of the sense fields of the various sentient beings in the various orders of sentient beings.\nBuddha This is called rebirth.\nBuddha And what is old age?\nThe old age, decrepitude, broken teeth, grey hair, wrinkly skin, diminished vitality, and failing faculties of the various sentient beings in the various orders of sentient beings.\nBuddha This is called old age.\nBuddha And what is death?\nThe passing away, passing on, disintegration, demise, mortality, death, decease, breaking up of the aggregates, laying to rest of the corpse, and cutting off of the life faculty of the various sentient beings in the various orders of sentient beings.\nBuddha This is called death.\nBuddha And what is sorrow?\nThe sorrow, sorrowing, state of sorrow, inner sorrow, inner deep sorrow in someone who has undergone misfortune, who has experienced suffering.\nBuddha This is called sorrow.\nBuddha And what is lamentation?\nThe wail, lament, wailing, lamenting, state of wailing and lamentation in someone who has undergone misfortune, who has experienced suffering.\nBuddha This is called lamentation.\nBuddha And what is pain?\nPhysical pain, physical unpleasantness, the painful, unpleasant feeling that’s born from physical contact.\nBuddha This is called pain.\nBuddha And what is sadness?\nMental pain, mental displeasure, the painful, unpleasant feeling that’s born from mental contact.\nBuddha This is called sadness.\nBuddha And what is distress?\nThe stress, distress, state of stress and distress in someone who has undergone misfortune, who has experienced suffering.\nBuddha This is called distress.\nBuddha And what is meant by ‘being coupled with the disliked is suffering’?\nThere are sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touches, and ideas, which are unlikable, undesirable, and disagreeable. And there are those who want to harm, injure, disturb, and threaten you. The coming together with these, the joining, inclusion, mixing with them:\nthis is what is meant by ‘being coupled with the disliked is suffering’.\nBuddha And what is meant by ‘separation from the liked is suffering’?\nThere are sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touches, and ideas, which are likable, desirable, and agreeable. And there are those who want to help, benefit, comfort, and protect you: mother and father, brother and sister, friends and colleagues, relatives and kin. The division from these, the disconnection, segregation, and parting from them:\nthis is what is meant by ‘separation from the liked is suffering’.\nBuddha And what is meant by ‘not getting what you wish for is suffering’?\nIn sentient beings who are liable to be reborn, such a wish arises:\n‘Oh, if only we were not liable to be reborn! If only rebirth would not come to us!’\nBut you can’t get that by wishing.\nThis is what is meant by ‘not getting what you wish for is suffering.’\nIn sentient beings who are liable to grow old …\nfall ill …\ndie …\nexperience sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress, such a wish arises: ‘Oh, if only we were not liable to experience sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress! If only sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress would not come to us!’\nBut you can’t get that by wishing.\nBuddha This is what is meant by ‘not getting what you wish for is suffering.’\nBuddha And what is meant by ‘in brief, the five grasping aggregates are suffering’?\nThey are the grasping aggregates that consist of form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness.\nThis is what is meant by ‘in brief, the five grasping aggregates are suffering’.\nBuddha This is called the noble truth of suffering.\nNote section 4.5.2. The Origin of Suffering\nBuddha And what is the noble truth of the origin of suffering?\nIt’s the craving that leads to future lives, mixed up with relishing and greed, taking pleasure there wherever it alights. That is,\ncraving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, and craving for nonexistence.\nBuddha But where does that craving arise and where does it settle?\nBuddha Whatever in the world seems nice and pleasant, it is there that craving arises and settles.\nAnd what in the world seems nice and pleasant?\nThe eye in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nThe ear …\nnose …\ntongue …\nbody …\nmind in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nSights …\nsounds …\nsmells …\ntastes …\ntouches …\nideas in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nEye consciousness …\near consciousness …\nnose consciousness …\ntongue consciousness …\nbody consciousness …\nmind consciousness in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nEye contact …\near contact …\nBuddha nose contact …\ntongue contact …\nbody contact …\nmind contact in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nFeeling born of eye contact …\nfeeling born of ear contact …\nfeeling born of nose contact …\nfeeling born of tongue contact …\nfeeling born of body contact …\nfeeling born of mind contact in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nPerception of sights …\nperception of sounds …\nperception of smells …\nperception of tastes …\nperception of touches …\nperception of ideas in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nIntention regarding sights …\nintention regarding sounds …\nintention regarding smells …\nBuddha intention regarding tastes …\nintention regarding touches …\nintention regarding ideas in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nCraving for sights …\ncraving for sounds …\ncraving for smells …\ncraving for tastes …\ncraving for touches …\ncraving for ideas in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nThoughts about sights …\nthoughts about sounds …\nthoughts about smells …\nthoughts about tastes …\nthoughts about touches …\nthoughts about ideas in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nConsiderations regarding sights …\nconsiderations regarding sounds …\nconsiderations regarding smells …\nBuddha considerations regarding tastes …\nconsiderations regarding touches …\nconsiderations regarding ideas in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.\nBuddha This is called the noble truth of the origin of suffering.\nNote section 4.5.3. The Cessation of Suffering\nBuddha And what is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering?\nIt’s the fading away and cessation of that very same craving with no residue left behind; giving it away, letting it go, releasing it, and not clinging to it.\nBuddha Whatever in the world seems nice and pleasant, it is there that craving is given up and ceases.\nAnd what in the world seems nice and pleasant?\nThe eye in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving is given up and ceases. …\nConsiderations regarding ideas in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving is given up and ceases.\nBuddha This is called the noble truth of the cessation of suffering.\nNote section 4.5.4. The Path\nBuddha And what is the noble truth of the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering?\nIt is simply this noble eightfold path, that is:\nright view, right purpose, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion.\nBuddha And what is right view?\nKnowing about suffering, the origin of suffering, the cessation of suffering, and the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering.\nBuddha This is called right view.\nBuddha And what is right purpose?\nPurposes of renunciation, good will, and harmlessness.\nBuddha This is called right purpose.\nBuddha And what is right speech?\nRefraining from lying, backbiting, harsh speech, and talking nonsense.\nBuddha This is called right speech.\nBuddha And what is right action?\nRefraining from killing living creatures, stealing, and sexual misconduct.\nBuddha This is called right action.\nBuddha And what is right livelihood?\nIt’s when a noble disciple gives up wrong livelihood and earns a living by right livelihood.\nBuddha This is called right livelihood.\nBuddha And what is right effort?\nIt’s when a mendicant generates enthusiasm, tries, makes an effort, exerts the mind, and strives so that bad, unskillful qualities don’t arise.\nThey generate enthusiasm, try, make an effort, exert the mind, and strive so that bad, unskillful qualities that have arisen are given up.\nThey generate enthusiasm, try, make an effort, exert the mind, and strive so that skillful qualities arise.\nThey generate enthusiasm, try, make an effort, exert the mind, and strive so that skillful qualities that have arisen remain, are not lost, but increase, mature, and are completed by development.\nBuddha This is called right effort.\nBuddha And what is right mindfulness?\nIt’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.\nThey meditate observing an aspect of feelings—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.\nThey meditate observing an aspect of the mind—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.\nThey meditate observing an aspect of principles—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.\nBuddha This is called right mindfulness.\nBuddha And what is right immersion?\nIt’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.\nAs the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, they enter and remain in the second absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of immersion, with internal clarity and mind at one, without placing the mind and keeping it connected.\nBuddha And with the fading away of rapture, they enter and remain in the third absorption, where they meditate with equanimity, mindful and aware, personally experiencing the bliss of which the noble ones declare, ‘Equanimous and mindful, one meditates in bliss.’\nWith the giving up of pleasure and pain and the disappearance of former happiness and sadness, they enter and remain in the fourth absorption, without pleasure or pain, with pure equanimity and mindfulness.\nBuddha This is called right immersion.\nBuddha This is called the noble truth of the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering.\nAnd so they meditate observing an aspect of principles internally, externally, and both internally and externally.\nThey meditate observing, with respect to the principles, the liability to originate, to vanish, and to originate and vanish.\nOr mindfulness is established that principles exist, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world.\nThat’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the four noble truths.\nBuddha Anyone who develops these four kinds of mindfulness meditation in this way for seven years can expect one of two results:\nenlightenment in this very life, or if there’s residue left behind, non-return.\nBuddha Let alone seven years,\nanyone who develops these four kinds of mindfulness meditation in this way for six years …\nfive years …\nfour years …\nthree years …\ntwo years …\none year …\nseven months …\nsix months …\nfive months …\nfour months …\nthree months …\ntwo months …\none month …\na fortnight …\nBuddha Let alone a fortnight,\nanyone who develops these four kinds of mindfulness meditation in this way for seven days can expect one of two results:\nenlightenment in this very life, or if there’s residue left behind, non-return.\n‘The four kinds of mindfulness meditation are the path to convergence. They are in order to purify sentient beings, to get past sorrow and crying, to make an end of pain and sadness, to discover the system, and to realize extinguishment.’\nThat’s what I said, and this is why I said it.\nNote That is what the Buddha said.\nSatisfied, the mendicants approved what the Buddha said.\n","permalink":"https://shunyatha.in/en/notes/dn22_dialogue/","summary":"\u003csection class=\"dlg\" role=\"list\"\u003e\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-center dlg-size-long dlg-type-note dlg-speaker-note\" id=\"msg-001\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eNote\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-meta\"\u003e\n        \u003cspan class=\"dlg-tags\"\u003e\n          \u003cspan class=\"dlg-tag\"\u003esource\u003c/span\u003e\n        \u003c/span\u003e\n      \u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eLong Discourses 22, \u003cstrong\u003eThe Longer Discourse on Mindfulness Meditation\u003c/strong\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTranslated by Bhikkhu Sujato for \u003ca href=\"https://suttacentral.net/dn22/en/sujato\"\n   rel=\"noopener\"\n   class=\"external-link\"\n   target=\"_blank\"\n\u003eSuttaCentral\u003c/a\u003e\n.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSource: \u003ca href=\"https://raw.githubusercontent.com/suttacentral/bilara-data/refs/heads/published/translation/en/sujato/sutta/dn/dn22_translation-en-sujato.json\"\n   rel=\"noopener\"\n   class=\"external-link\"\n   target=\"_blank\"\n\u003eBilara JSON\u003c/a\u003e\n.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-001\" aria-label=\"Permalink to Note message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-center dlg-size-medium dlg-type-note dlg-speaker-note\" id=\"msg-002\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eNote\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eSo I have heard.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Kurus, near the Kuru town named Kammāsadamma.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere the Buddha addressed the mendicants,\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-002\" aria-label=\"Permalink to Note message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-right dlg-size-short dlg-type-speech dlg-speaker-buddha\" id=\"msg-003\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eBuddha\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eMendicants!\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-003\" aria-label=\"Permalink to Buddha message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-left dlg-size-short dlg-type-speech dlg-speaker-mendicants\" id=\"msg-004\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eMendicants\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eVenerable sir,\u003c/p\u003e","title":"The Longer Discourse on Mindfulness Meditation"},{"content":" Note source Heartfelt Sayings 1.10, With Bāhiya.\nTranslated by Bhikkhu Sujato for SuttaCentral .\nNote So I have heard.\nAt one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.\nNow at that time Bāhiya of the Bark Cloth was residing by Suppāraka on the ocean shore, where he was honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed. And he received robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.\nThen as he was in private retreat this thought came to his mind.\nBāhiya I am one of those in the world who are perfected or on the path to perfection.\nNote Then a deity who was a former relative of Bāhiya, having sympathy and wanting what’s best for him, approached him.\nDeity Bāhiya, you’re not a perfected one, nor on the path to perfection.\nYou don’t have the practice by which you might become a perfected one or one on the path to perfection.\nBāhiya So who then are those in the world who are perfected or on the path to perfection?\nDeity In the northern lands there is a city named Sāvatthī.\nThere that Blessed One is now staying, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.\nHe is a perfected one and teaches the Dhamma for the sake of perfection.\nNote Impelled by that deity, Bāhiya left Suppāraka right away.\nSojourning no more than a single night in any place, he made his way to Anāthapiṇḍika’s Monastery in the Jeta Grove at Sāvatthī.\nAt that time several mendicants were walking mindfully in the open air. Bāhiya approached them.\nBāhiya Sirs, where is the Blessed One at present, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha?\nFor I want to see him.\nMendicants He has entered an inhabited area for almsfood, Bāhiya.\nNote Then Bāhiya rushed out of the Jeta Grove and entered Sāvatthī, where he saw the Buddha walking for alms. He was impressive and inspiring, with peaceful faculties and heart, attained to the highest self-control and serenity, like an elephant with tamed, guarded, and controlled faculties.\nBāhiya went up to the Buddha, bowed down with his head at the Buddha’s feet, and spoke.\nBāhiya Sir, let the Blessed One teach me the Dhamma! Let the Holy One teach me the Dhamma!\nThat would be for my lasting welfare and happiness.\nNote The Buddha said this.\nBuddha It’s not the time, Bāhiya, so long as I have entered an inhabited area for almsfood.\nNote For a second time, Bāhiya said.\nBāhiya But you never know, sir, when life is at risk, either the Buddha’s or my own.\nLet the Blessed One teach me the Dhamma! Let the Holy One teach me the Dhamma!\nThat would be for my lasting welfare and happiness.\nNote For a second time, the Buddha said.\nBuddha It’s not the time, Bāhiya, so long as I have entered an inhabited area for almsfood.\nNote For a third time, Bāhiya said.\nBāhiya But you never know, sir, when life is at risk, either the Buddha’s or my own.\nLet the Blessed One teach me the Dhamma! Let the Holy One teach me the Dhamma!\nThat would be for my lasting welfare and happiness.\nBuddha In that case, Bāhiya, you should train like this:\nIn the seen will be merely the seen; in the heard will be merely the heard; in the thought will be merely the thought; in the known will be merely the known.\nThat’s how you should train.\nWhen you have trained in this way, you won’t be “by that”.\nWhen you’re not “by that”, you won’t be “in that”.\nWhen you’re not “in that”, you won’t be in this life or the next or between the two.\nJust this is the end of suffering.\nNote Then, due to this brief Dhamma teaching of the Buddha, Bāhiya’s mind was right away freed from defilements by not grasping.\nAnd when the Buddha had given Bāhiya this brief advice he left.\nBut soon after the Buddha had left, a cow with a baby calf charged at Bāhiya and took his life.\nThen the Buddha wandered for alms in Sāvatthī. After the meal, on his return from almsround, he exited the city together with several mendicants and saw that Bāhiya had passed away.\nHe said to the monks.\nBuddha Mendicants, pick up Bāhiya’s corpse. Having lifted it onto a cot and carried it, cremate it and build a monument.\nMendicants, one of your spiritual companions has passed away.\nMendicants Yes, sir.\nNote Those mendicants did as the Buddha asked, then returned to the Buddha and said.\nMendicants Sir, Bāhiya’s corpse has been cremated and a monument built for him.\nWhere has he been reborn in his next life?\nBuddha Mendicants, Bāhiya was astute. He practiced in line with the teaching, and did not trouble me about the teachings.\nBāhiya of the Bark Cloth has become fully quenched.\nNote Then, understanding this matter, on that occasion the Buddha expressed this heartfelt sentiment.\nBuddha Where water and earth,\nfire and air have no footing—\nthere no star does shine,\nnor does the sun shed its light;\nthere the moon glows not,\nyet no darkness is found.\nAnd when a sage, a brahmin, finds understanding\nthrough their own sagacity,\nthen, from forms and formless,\nfrom pleasure and pain they are released.\nNote This too is a heartfelt saying that was spoken by the Blessed One: that is what I heard.\n","permalink":"https://shunyatha.in/en/notes/bahiya_dialogue/","summary":"\u003csection class=\"dlg\" role=\"list\"\u003e\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-center dlg-size-medium dlg-type-note dlg-speaker-note\" id=\"msg-001\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eNote\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-meta\"\u003e\n        \u003cspan class=\"dlg-tags\"\u003e\n          \u003cspan class=\"dlg-tag\"\u003esource\u003c/span\u003e\n        \u003c/span\u003e\n      \u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eHeartfelt Sayings 1.10, \u003cstrong\u003eWith Bāhiya\u003c/strong\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTranslated by Bhikkhu Sujato for \u003ca href=\"https://suttacentral.net/ud1.10/en/sujato\"\n   rel=\"noopener\"\n   class=\"external-link\"\n   target=\"_blank\"\n\u003eSuttaCentral\u003c/a\u003e\n.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-001\" aria-label=\"Permalink to Note message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-center dlg-size-long dlg-type-note dlg-speaker-note\" id=\"msg-002\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003eNote\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eSo I have heard.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAt one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNow at that time Bāhiya of the Bark Cloth was residing by Suppāraka on the ocean shore, where he was honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed. And he received robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.\u003c/p\u003e","title":"With Bāhiya"},{"content":" devadatta Heyy Mitra, what\u0026rsquo;s up??\nmitra Hii Devadatta, what\u0026rsquo;s up??\ndevadatta What\u0026rsquo;s this emptiness stuff? shunyata? empty of self? lack of essence?? all that you keep talking about?\nmitra Ah right, let\u0026rsquo;s start with the examination of a chair??\ndevadatta Oh please, spare me from the examination of chairs and ordinary objects this time, I have read about chairs enough already essays. Try something else perhaps?\nmitra Okay, let\u0026rsquo;s examine a phenomenon that you are interested in then?\ndevadatta That\u0026rsquo;s better. Let\u0026rsquo;s talk about us, the humans :))\nmitra Sure, go on then.\ndevadatta do humans have self?\nmitra No, we do not.\ndevadatta I don\u0026rsquo;t know, but we have a soul? atman? right? I have heard about it somewhere. I feel that there has to be something apart from all these appearances right?\nmitra Yes, many traditions posit something like that.\nA ground of experience. An eternal essence. An unchanging core. A true knower behind experience.\nLet\u0026rsquo;s examine whether such a thing can actually be found.\ndevadatta Okay. How?\nmitra Let\u0026rsquo;s start simple.\nRight now, what do you call \u0026ldquo;yourself\u0026rdquo;?\ndevadatta Me?\nMy body. My thoughts. My memories. My personality. My consciousness maybe? There are things that I call me and mine.\nmitra Good.\nNow let\u0026rsquo;s inspect them one by one.\nIs your body permanent and unchanging?\ndevadatta No. It was once not here, and will not be there after a while.\nmitra Right. Cells change. Appearance changes. Health changes. Age changes.\nSo if the body changes continuously, in what sense is it a fixed self?\ndevadatta Maybe the self is the mind then?\nmitra Which part of the mind?\nThoughts?\ndevadatta Thoughts constantly change too.\nmitra Emotions?\ndevadatta Also changing.\nmitra Memories?\ndevadatta Those change too actually. Some disappear. Some get distorted.\nmitra Personality?\ndevadatta Changes over years.\nmitra Consciousness?\ndevadatta That seems more stable maybe?\nmitra Stable in what sense?\nin deep sleep? where is the experience of consciousness?\ndevadatta Not present I guess.\nmitra When under anesthesia?\ndevadatta Also absent.\nmitra When distracted?\ndevadatta It becomes fragmented. But it is like the light in vacuum, light has nothing to shine upon, similarly, consciousness needs something to shine upon, only then it manifests.\nmitra It is not a good example. Light doesn\u0026rsquo;t shine upon things. Even if you consider that, consciousness appears to be dependent on conditions. It comes and goes. It is purely speculative to assume that something independently exists without any evidence at all.\ndevadatta Hmm. so consciousness depends on the objects to reveal itself? I have heard many say that it reveals the other and itself, self-reflexive, a special property of it.\nmitra Can a knife cut itself? self-reflexivity of consciousness is not logically coherent.\ndevadatta Okayy, yeah. If consciousness could self-reveal and reveal other things, why does it not reveal itself when the objects aren\u0026rsquo;t present. Makes sense when you say it out loud.\nBut maybe there is still something underneath all this?\nLike a hidden observer? knower of knowers?\nmitra Okayyy, Can you point to it directly? how do you know?\ndevadatta Not exactly.\nmitra Can it be observed?\ndevadatta If it could be observed, it would become another object. It goes on forever.\nmitra Exactly. Infinite regress on this one.\nNow notice something important.\nWe inspected:\nbody feelings thoughts memories consciousness None of them were:\npermanent independent self-existing unchanging Yet together they create the appearance of a person.\ndevadatta So Buddhism says humans don\u0026rsquo;t exist?\nmitra No.\nHumans conventionally exist.\nYou exist as:\nprocess relation continuity designation Not as an independently existing essence.\ndevadatta What\u0026rsquo;s the difference?\nmitra A rainbow exists.\nBut not as a solid object hidden inside/behind/containing the sky apart from what is seen.\nIt exists dependently:\nsunlight moisture observer angle atmospheric conditions Remove the conditions, the rainbow disappears.\ndevadatta So humans are like that?\nmitra Yes.\nDependent phenomena.\nNot non-existent. Not self-existent.\ndevadatta Then emptiness means\u0026hellip;\nmitra Empty of intrinsic existence.\nNeither non-existing, nor self-existing but dependently arisen.\ndevadatta Wait.\nThen if everything depends on other things, doesn\u0026rsquo;t that lead to infinite regress?\nmitra Only if you assume things need a final self-grounding essence to exist.\nDependent origination is not saying:\nthings are unsupported illusions.\nIt says:\nthings are dependently arisen. searching for the essence behind the appearance will lead to no final ground because appearances need none. if there is no self, there is no other either. dependently arisen does not mean that things arise from something more fundamental to themselves (the other).\ndevadatta damn, does that mean that nothing is real??\nmitra No, can you define whats \u0026ldquo;real\u0026rdquo;?\ndevadatta Something that really exists? not like a dream, you know?\nmitra The question itself assumes intrinsic existence, things are dependently arisen. Things neither exist nor not exist.\ndevadatta Is that emptiness again?\nmitra Yup\ndevadatta So humans just appear but do not exist?\nmitra well, let\u0026rsquo;s talk in concrete terms. Humans do not exist from their own side.\nHumans exist ontologically and are not subject to change.\nThis is an extreme view.\nHumans do not exist at all.\nThis is another extreme view. These views collapse when examined.\ndevadatta So what\u0026rsquo;s real cannot cease to exist, and what\u0026rsquo;s unreal cannot come to existence? I think I have heard it somewhere. What appears is neither real nor unreal?\nmitra Right, Something \u0026ldquo;real\u0026rdquo; cannot change, what cannot chnage cannot be a part of epistemic process. You cannot know such a thing. We don\u0026rsquo;t need to talk about what\u0026rsquo;s unreal, like the wife of a bachelor, logically impossible, oxymoronic.\ndevadatta So then, what\u0026rsquo;s all this? appearances that are empty of essence, then emptiness must be the ultimate ground?\nmitra No No, that is an error. Emptiness is empty of essence. Emptiness is dependently arisen. Emptiness is form and form is emptiness.\ndevadatta Wait wait.\nIf emptiness itself is empty, then there is no final philosophical position left to stand on.\nmitra Exactly.\nThat is why Nagarjuna says:\nThose for whom emptiness is a view are incurable.\nEmptiness is not a replacement substance. Not a cosmic ground. Not hidden metaphysical glue behind appearances.\nIt is the absence of intrinsic essence.\ndevadatta So if emptiness is empty, it shouldn\u0026rsquo;t work. your view is empty too, checkmate. You have self-defeated yourself.\nmitra Well, I have heard this argument before.\nThat is a misunderstanding of what emptiness is. Yes, all views are empty, and I do not have a view to begin with. Being empty of self doesn\u0026rsquo;t mean that it doesn\u0026rsquo;t work.\ndevadatta Okay, my bad. We just saw that being empty allows things to function, not the otherwise.\nmitra Honest, yup.\ndevadatta So this is still bothering me, if there is no fixed self, who suffers? who is happy?\nmitra Suffering occurs. happiness occurs.\nThat is enough.\nYou do not need an eternal owner behind pain for pain to appear.\ndevadatta Then who gets liberated?\nmitra Liberation also occurs dependently.\nThe assumption that there must be a permanent entity which \u0026ldquo;possesses\u0026rdquo; liberation is itself part of the confusion.\ndevadatta Then there is nothing here that is me and mine?\nmitra conventionally we use the language of me and mine but ultimately no.\ndevadatta what do you mean? what\u0026rsquo;s conventional and ultimate?\ndevadatta But then where exactly does responsibility fit into all this?\nIf there is no fixed self, who acts?\nWho makes choices?\nmitra Mhmm, Tell me first, when you say:\n\u0026ldquo;I decided\u0026rdquo;\nwhat exactly happened?\ndevadatta I thought about something, weighed options, then chose one.\nmitra Did the thoughts appear voluntarily?\ndevadatta Not really. They just arose.\nmitra Did you choose your preferences before they appeared?\ndevadatta No.\nmitra Did you choose:\nyour genetics? upbringing? language? fears? desires? temperament? mood? devadatta No.\nmitra Yet all these condition decisions.\ndevadatta So there is no free will then?\nmitra Depends what you mean by \u0026ldquo;free\u0026rdquo;.\nAbsolutely independent will?\nNo.\nA self-existing autonomous controller separate from causes and conditions?\nNo.\nBut choices still occur.\nIntentions still arise. Consequences still follow.\ndevadatta Then humans are like machines?\nmitra No.\nMachines are also dependently arisen.\nThe issue is not whether something is mechanical or mystical.\nThe issue is: can an independently existing controller actually be found?\ndevadatta Hmm.\nBut I feel like I am choosing.\nmitra Of course.\nThe feeling of agency appears.\nBut examine it carefully.\nA thought arises. An intention appears. Action follows. Then thought says:\n\u0026ldquo;I did that.\u0026rdquo;\ndevadatta Wait. Are you saying the sense of doership comes after the process?\nmitra Often, yes.\nNotice how many actions occur automatically:\nbreathing emotional reactions habits impulses attraction aversion Then narrative assembles around them.\ndevadatta That sounds unsettling honestly.\nmitra Only because the mind is attached to being a central controller. We assume the presence of independent agents behind what is seen.\ndevadatta Then who is reading this sentence right now?\nmitra Reading is occurring. Understanding is occurring. Recognition is occurring.\nBut can you isolate a separate independent reader apart from:\nperception cognition memory language attention conditions ?\ndevadatta Not really.\nThere is experience, but the experiencer becomes difficult to isolate.\nmitra Right.\ndevadatta Then consequences and fruits of action also works without a self?\nmitra Yes. There is neither a doer, nor a non-doer.\nA flame lighting another flame does not require an eternal entity transferring between them.\nContinuity does not require identity or an independent agent behind the events.\ndevadatta Damn.\nSo neither complete sameness nor complete difference. am I getting it right?\nmitra hmm. You can check out Reasons and Persons Book by Derek Parfit. he explains how psychological continuity is mistaken to be an independent agent using thought experiments.\nIf you were completely identical across time, change would be impossible.\nIf completely disconnected, memory and continuity would be impossible.\nDependent continuity avoids both extremes.\ndevadatta So \u0026ldquo;person\u0026rdquo; is more like a convenient designation over dynamic processes?\nmitra sort of. Conventionally valid.\nBut ultimately empty of intrinsic essence.\ndevadatta Then what exactly is reborn according to Buddhism?\nmitra Dependent continuity.\nNot a permanent soul or an agent.\nNot absolute annihilation either.\nA causal continuity, if you really want to name it but again this is conventional.\ndevadatta This middle-way thing keeps showing up everywhere.\nmitra Because the tendency toward extremes appears everywhere:\nexistence vs nonexistence self vs no-self free will vs determinism eternalism vs annihilationism Madhyamaka examines the assumptions generating both sides.\ndevadatta So the goal is not to replace one metaphysical belief with another.\nmitra Right.\nIt is to see the emptiness of the framework producing the confusion itself.\ndevadatta This feels less like a philosophy now, and more like dismantling compulsive conceptual fixation.\nmitra Yup\ndevadatta But it\u0026rsquo;s still hard to see things in that way, for example, if someone hurts my loved ones, I want to punish them, I assume the other person should have done otherwise, should be good enough to know better? now I feel that anger is misguided. should they be not sent to prison?\nmitra Not necessarily. It is a bit more nuanced when the society as whole comes into picture.\nUnderstanding dependent origination does not mean abandoning consequences.\nIf someone harms others, restraining them may still be necessary.\ndevadatta So jail still makes sense?\nmitra Conventionally, yes. Protection of innocents matters. Rehabilitation of the troubled matters. Society itself is dependently arisen. But this means that we should not treat fellow human beings like they are inherently evil. Because nothing is inherently anything at all.\ndevadatta ah I thought emptiness would destroy ethics and we would be in a huge mess.\nmitra No. It just removes metaphysical fixation, that there are inherent evil/good which is not practical.\nThe problem is not:\n\u0026ldquo;this action caused harm\u0026rdquo;\nThe problem is:\n\u0026ldquo;this person is independently evil from their own side.\u0026rdquo;\ndevadatta So accountability without essentializing?\nmitra hmhm.\nI am not 100% sure on what an ideal society should look like. But there is no inherent hatred/evil/good/bad.\ndevadatta That actually sounds harder than simple anger towards someone troubled you. We love to blame others for our misfortunes \u0026lsquo;:)\nmitra It is easy to do so, but to sit down and think about what exactly is the cause for something is hard for sure.\ndevadatta Damn. So there is responsibility, but no independently existing responsible entity behind it.\nmitra Conventionally yes, responsibility exists.\nBut ultimately no fixed agent can be isolated.\nBoth function together.\ndevadatta Middle way again?\nmitra Unfortunately for your checkmate attempts, yes. :))\ndevadatta But hey, is birth and death real? who is born and who dies?\nmitra ah let\u0026rsquo;s talk about it later? I gotta go to bed :P\ndevadatta alright, sleep is empty man, please tell me more.\nmitra :)) There is\nNeither death Nor no death Both Not both. devadatta what\u0026rsquo;s this? some kind of denial of all premises?\nmitra yup, it\u0026rsquo;s called the four cornered logic. Used to exhaust/reject all extreme views. will talk about it later, see ya.\ndevadatta oki, see ya mate.\n","permalink":"https://shunyatha.in/en/thoughts/emptiness_dialogue/","summary":"\u003csection class=\"dlg\" role=\"list\"\u003e\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-left dlg-size-short dlg-type-speech dlg-speaker-dev\" id=\"msg-001\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003edevadatta\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eHeyy Mitra, what\u0026rsquo;s up??\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-001\" aria-label=\"Permalink to devadatta message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-right dlg-size-short dlg-type-speech dlg-speaker-sam\" id=\"msg-002\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003emitra\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eHii Devadatta, what\u0026rsquo;s up??\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-002\" aria-label=\"Permalink to mitra message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-left dlg-size-medium dlg-type-speech dlg-speaker-dev\" id=\"msg-003\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003edevadatta\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eWhat\u0026rsquo;s this emptiness stuff? shunyata? empty of self? lack of essence?? all that you keep talking about?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-003\" aria-label=\"Permalink to devadatta message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-right dlg-size-short dlg-type-speech dlg-speaker-sam\" id=\"msg-004\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003emitra\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAh right, let\u0026rsquo;s start with the examination of a chair??\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003ca class=\"dlg-anchor\" href=\"#msg-004\" aria-label=\"Permalink to mitra message\"\u003e\n      \u003cspan aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\n    \u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/article\u003e\n\u003carticle class=\"dlg-msg dlg-left dlg-size-medium dlg-type-speech dlg-speaker-dev\" id=\"msg-005\" role=\"listitem\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-shell\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-bubble\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-speaker\"\u003edevadatta\u003c/div\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"dlg-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eOh please, spare me from the examination of chairs and ordinary objects this time, I have read about chairs enough already \u003ca href=\"/en/essays/\"\u003eessays\u003c/a\u003e. Try something else perhaps?\u003c/p\u003e","title":"Emptiness: What's it about?"},{"content":"Lack of independent existence has already been demonstrated for ordinary objects. That can be found here - Examination of Ordinary Objects\nThis essay restricts itself to a single question: how ordinary objects continue to function without independent existence.\n1. Objects do not exist from their own side This statement makes no claim about use, transaction, or appearance. Absence of intrinsic substance does not implicitly entail absence of function.\nObjects are not established in themselves, in another, in both, or without causes. No coherent ontological or metaphysical ground can be found through examination.\n2. Objects persist as stabilized conventional designations Objects function as designations held stable under constraint. A designation is stabilized when it remains coherent across repeated contexts of coordination.\nThis stability is conventional. It is maintained through repetition, shared practice, and memory. Nothing intrinsic is located in the object that gives it its object-ness.\nAn intrinsically existing object would be isolated from causes and conditions. Such an object could not be interacted with, modified, examined, or known.\nCauses, conditions, and designation Ordinary objects are accounted for through three factors: causes (hetu), conditions (pratyaya), and designation (prajñapti).\nCauses are the productive factors through which an object arises. Without causes, nothing appears.\nConditions are the supporting factors that allow causes to function. Causes alone are insufficient without conditions.\nDesignation is the way language and cognition take the assembled causes and conditions to be an object. No object is found apart from being identified, referred to, and treated as such.\nRemoving any one of these collapses the object. None of them, singly or together, establish independent existence. Objects arise through causes and conditions and exist only as designations upon that basis.\nThis is sufficient for conventional dependent existence and for the functioning of ordinary objects.\nAnalysis Sugar and sweetness Sugar is said to be sweet. Consider how this sweetness appears. We take sugar here for its sweetness. Its shape, size, or color may vary, yet it is still called sugar so long as sweetness is taken. A crystal or a powder are treated alike on this basis.\nCause: Placing a sugar cube on the tongue for example.\nConditions: Saliva dissolving the sugar. Functional taste receptors. Neural processing of above information. Learned contrast with bitter, sour, and neutral tastes.\nWithout these conditions, sweetness does not arise.\nDesignation: The experience is identified and referred to as \u0026ldquo;sweet\u0026rdquo; in contrast to other tastes.\nNo sweetness is found apart from this causal and conditional setup and the act of designation.\nSweetness is not located in sugar itself. It arises through causes and conditions and exists only as designated.\nBecause sweetness depends on these factors, it can vary, disappear, or be reproduced under similar conditions.\nSickness / Disease Sickness is spoken of as something one \u0026ldquo;has\u0026rdquo;, examine how sickness appears.\nCause: For example, exposure to a virus.\nConditions: Lack of sufficient antibodies. Physiological susceptibility. Environmental and behavioral factors.\nWithout these conditions, sickness does not arise.\nDesignation: The resulting state is identified and referred to as \u0026ldquo;sickness\u0026rdquo; in contrast to health.\nNo sickness is found apart from these causes, conditions, and the act of designation.\nSickness is not something that exists independently. It arises through causes and conditions and exists only as designated.\nBecause sickness depends on these factors, it can be diagnosed, treated, and resolved.\nIn both cases, nothing is found that exists independently. What appears does so through causes and conditions and is taken up through designation.\nOrdinary objects and ordinary states function only because they lack independent existence.\nOne may stop at \u0026ldquo;virus\u0026rdquo; or \u0026ldquo;immunity\u0026rdquo; and take it as a final ground. But the same analysis applies there too.\nA virus arises from prior biological processes. Immunity depends on nutrition, exposure history, genetics, and environment.\nRemove the causes and conditions, and neither virus nor immunity appears.\nIf one were to stop here and claim independence of any objects, the same errors would follow. The analysis proceeds wherever one chooses to stop.\nIf sweetness or sickness were assumed to exist independently, then they would not depend on causes and conditions.\nWhat does not depend on causes and conditions cannot be accessed through them.\nSweetness could not be known through contact and discrimination. Sickness could not be known through symptoms and diagnosis.\nWhat cannot be known through its causes and conditions cannot be investigated. What cannot be investigated cannot be altered.\nWhat cannot be altered cannot cease. But sweetness is known by tasting, and sickness is known by examining conditions.\nThey are changed by altering causes, and they cease when causes and conditions cease.\nAssuming independent existence makes knowing, changing, and cessation impossible. What is known, changed, and ceases depends on causes and conditions.\nAssume an intrinsic sweetness located in sugar so taken. Assume a sweetness arising in tasting under conditions. If the first establishes sugar as sweet and the second is what is tasted, are there two sweetnesses?\nThe sweetness that arises dependently in tasting is the only one that is known. A sweetness posited apart from this is not tasted, does not vary, and is not altered. It plays no role in establishing, knowing, or changing sugar.\nSimilar analysis applies to all ordinary objects taken to conventionally exist. Any posited intrinsic and independent existence is not accessible through the means by which objects are known, investigated, or altered. What cannot, even in principle, be encountered through such means does not function within the conventional domain.\nFor this reason, claims of independent existence must remain answerable to how something is known, how it is altered, and how it ceases.\nWhat exists conventionally is exposed to failure under examination. It can be shown to arise, to change, or to cease when causes and conditions are altered.\nClaims that cannot, even in principle, be falsified through causal inquiry do not qualify as conventionally existent.\nFalsifiability is one of the defining constraints of the conventional world.\nOrdinary objects function precisely because they lack independent intrinsic existence. Whatever is dependently arisen, that is explained to be emptiness(Śūnyatā).\n","permalink":"https://shunyatha.in/en/essays/ordinary_objects_dependently_arisen/","summary":"\u003cp\u003eLack of independent existence has already been demonstrated for ordinary objects.\nThat can be found here - \u003ca href=\"/en/essays/examination_ordinary_objects/\"\u003eExamination of Ordinary Objects\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis essay restricts itself to a single question: how ordinary objects continue to function without independent existence.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003chr\u003e\n\u003ch3 id=\"1-objects-do-not-exist-from-their-own-side\"\u003e1. Objects do not exist from their own side\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis statement makes no claim about use, transaction, or appearance. Absence of intrinsic substance does not implicitly entail absence of function.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eObjects are not established in themselves, in another, in both, or without causes. No coherent \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology\"\n   rel=\"noopener\"\n   class=\"external-link\"\n   target=\"_blank\"\n\u003eontological\u003c/a\u003e\n or \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics\"\n   rel=\"noopener\"\n   class=\"external-link\"\n   target=\"_blank\"\n\u003emetaphysical\u003c/a\u003e\n ground can be found through examination.\u003c/p\u003e","title":"Nature of Ordinary Objects"},{"content":" Consider ordinary objects such as tables, chairs, spoons, cars.\nTake the chair in particular as the locus of examination. Chairs are built, used, repaired, and discarded. When asked to fetch one, there is no hesitation and no confusion.\nNot everything that can be spoken of succeeds in this way. Some things exist only conceptually, like unicorns. Some cannot exist even conceptually, like a bachelor’s wife. Chairs and spoons belong to neither case.\nAssume, then, that such ordinary objects truly exist.\nA chair is made of parts. Legs, seat, back, joints. This much is undisputed.\nWhere, then, is the chair to be found?\n1. A chair exists in parts. No part is a chair. No leg, seat, or joint is the chair itself. If the chair exists in its parts, then each part would be a chair. This implies many chairs where only one is taken to exist. Removing a part would remove a chair, yet this is not how chairs are treated.\n2. A chair is of something other than parts. If the chair exists apart from its parts, then removing the parts should not remove the chair. When the parts are removed, nothing remains that can be identified as a chair.\n3. A Chair is of the collection of parts. If the chair were identical with the collection of its parts, then those parts would be a chair regardless of arrangement.\nIf a particular arrangement is required, the chair depends on a pattern or criterion beyond the parts themselves.\nIf arrangement does not matter, the conclusion is absurd, since this is not how chairs are treated.\nThe examination concerns only independent existence. Psychological continuity, linguistic convention, recognition, and usefulness are not under consideration here. If the chair exists independently, it must be found without appeal to cognition, convention, or designation.\nThe chair is not found in the parts, apart from the parts, or in their collection. These exhaust the possible ways in which an object could exist independently. No coherent mode of independent existence for the chair is found. This conclusion applies to all the ordinary objects that can be known.\nOrdinary objects lack independent existence.\n","permalink":"https://shunyatha.in/en/essays/examination_ordinary_objects/","summary":"\u003c!-- ## Examination of ordinary objects. --\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eConsider ordinary objects such as tables, chairs, spoons, cars.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTake the chair in particular as the locus of examination. Chairs are built, used, repaired, and discarded. When asked to fetch one, there is no hesitation and no confusion.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eNot everything that can be spoken of succeeds in this way. Some things exist only conceptually, like unicorns. Some cannot exist even conceptually, like a bachelor’s wife. Chairs and spoons belong to neither case.\u003c/p\u003e","title":"Examination of ordinary objects"}]