Long Discourses 15, The Great Discourse on Causation.
Translated by Bhikkhu Sujato for SuttaCentral .
Source: Bilara JSON .
Don’t say that, Ānanda, don’t say that!
This dependent origination is deep and appears deep.
It is because of not understanding and not penetrating this teaching that this population has become tangled like string, knotted like a ball of thread, and matted like rushes and reeds, and it doesn’t escape the places of loss, the bad places, the underworld, transmigration.
If they say, ‘What is a requirement for consciousness?’ you should answer, ‘Name and form are requirements for consciousness.’
So: name and form are requirements for consciousness. Consciousness is a requirement for name and form. Name and form are requirements for contact. Contact is a requirement for feeling. Feeling is a requirement for craving. Craving is a requirement for grasping. Grasping is a requirement for continued existence. Continued existence is a requirement for rebirth. Rebirth is a requirement for old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress to come to be.
That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.
‘Rebirth is a requirement for old age and death’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.
That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of craving, namely feeling.
So it is, Ānanda, that feeling gives rise to craving. Craving gives rise to searching. Searching gives rise to gaining material things. Gaining material things gives rise to evaluation. Evaluation gives rise to desire and lust. Desire and lust gives rise to attachment. Attachment gives rise to ownership. Ownership gives rise to stinginess. Stinginess gives rise to safeguarding.
Owing to safeguarding, many bad, unskillful things come to be: taking up the rod and the sword, quarrels, arguments, and disputes, accusations, backbiting, and lies.
That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of contact, namely name and form.
‘Consciousness is a requirement for name and form’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.
If consciousness were not conceived in the mother’s womb, would name and form coagulate there?
That’s why this is the cause, source, origin, and reason of name and form, namely consciousness.
‘Name and form are requirements for consciousness’—that’s what I said. And this is a way to understand how this is so.
If consciousness were not established in name and form, would the coming to be of the origin of suffering—of rebirth, old age, and death in the future—be found?
This is the extent to which one may be reborn, grow old, die, pass away, or reappear.
This is how far the scope of labeling, definition, and description extends; how far the sphere of wisdom extends; how far the cycle of rebirths spins so that this state of being may be found; namely, name and form together with consciousness.
They describe the self in the present as formed and limited; or they describe it as sure to be in some other place formed and limited; or else they think: ‘Though it is not like that, I will ensure it is provided with what it needs to become like that.’
This being so, it’s appropriate to say that a theory of self as formed and limited underlies them.
They describe the self as formless and infinite in the present; or as sure to become formless and infinite in some other place; or else they think: ‘Though it is not like that, I will ensure it is provided with what it needs to become like that.’
This being so, it’s appropriate to say that a theory of self as formless and infinite underlies them.
That’s how those who describe the self describe it.
They don’t describe the self in the present as formless and infinite; or as sure to become in some other place formless and infinite; and they don’t think: ‘Though it is not like that, I will ensure it is provided with what it needs to become like that.’
This being so, it’s appropriate to say that a theory of self as formless and infinite doesn’t underlie them.
That’s how those who don’t describe the self don’t describe it.
You should say this to them:
‘Reverend, there are three feelings:
pleasant, painful, and neutral.
Which one of these do you regard as self?’
Ānanda, at a time when you feel a pleasant feeling, you don’t feel a painful or neutral feeling;
you only feel a pleasant feeling.
At a time when you feel a painful feeling, you don’t feel a pleasant or neutral feeling;
you only feel a painful feeling.
At a time when you feel a neutral feeling, you don’t feel a pleasant or painful feeling;
you only feel a neutral feeling.
Pleasant feelings, painful feelings, and neutral feelings are all impermanent, conditioned, dependently originated, liable to end, vanish, fade away, and cease.
When feeling a pleasant feeling they think: ‘This is my self.’
When their pleasant feeling ceases they think: ‘My self has expired.’
When feeling a painful feeling they think: ‘This is my self.’
When their painful feeling ceases they think: ‘My self has expired.’
When feeling a neutral feeling they think: ‘This is my self.’
When their neutral feeling ceases they think: ‘My self has expired.’
So those who say ‘feeling is my self’ regard as self that which is evidently impermanent, mixed with pleasure and pain, and liable to rise and fall.
Not regarding anything in this way, they don’t grasp at anything in the world.
Not grasping, they’re not anxious. Not being anxious, they personally become extinguished.
They understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.’
It wouldn’t be appropriate to say that a mendicant whose mind is freed like this holds the following views:
‘A realized one still exists after death’;
‘A realized one no longer exists after death’;
‘A realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’;
‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death’.
Why is that?
A mendicant is freed by directly knowing this: how far labeling and the scope of labeling extend; how far definition and the scope of definition extend; how far description and the scope of description extend; how far wisdom and the sphere of wisdom extend; how far the cycle of rebirths and its continuation extend. It wouldn’t be appropriate to say that a mendicant freed by directly knowing this holds the view: ‘There is no such thing as knowing and seeing.’
When a mendicant enters into and withdraws from these eight liberations—in forward order, in reverse order, and in forward and reverse order—wherever they wish, whenever they wish, and for as long as they wish;
and when they realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life, and live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements, they’re called a mendicant who is freed both ways.